My man was sexually abused as a teenager by a woman

[StarShine]

Dear Dr. Paul and staff,

I am so sad. I want to sit down and cry. I have met the most wonderful man, our relationship is growing exponentially. As we were getting to know each other, he talked to me about having been in a relationship with an older woman when he was a teenager. Today this would be considered child abuse, but at the time he did not think of it as such. He wanted to talk about it again this morning. He explained it in great detail, and I have some questions that need answers from a professional. I am sad because no one should have that kind of experience at the hands of an adult they trust.

Firstly, he was living with this woman because his family placed him with her. It seems he was having discipline issues at home and this was the supposed solution.

I'm not sure how the beginning of the abuse started, however, this woman seemed to either shape his sexual turn-ons, or she was able to figure them out and use them to further the abuse. And this is what bothers me. The things they did together are still the things that arouse him. None of it is kinky or dark, but it's like I'm filling in for this woman in a sense.
It should also be said that I am 59 and he is 69....never thought of this issue coming up in senior love...but there it is.

My question is this, am I the surrogate for this woman? He said he really thought he was in love with her. And a secondary question, what signs do I need to be aware of that mean I should step away from the relationship?

[heartofagopi]

Dear Friend,

My heart goes out to you and this man you care for.

I am not qualified to answer your question. There are, undoubtably, many components to this story that need professional medical evaluation.

I feel it would be best if you consulted with a professional on the local level.

I welcome you to continue to post other questions related to Dr Paul's programs which we all feel are very helpful in our personal growth and dating experiences.

That would be my response at this time. We can see if Dr Paul has anything more to say.

Heart

[StarShine]

Thank you Heart,

You are right and I know he needs professional help. I believe from our conversations he has had some help over the years. I'm not sure we're far enough along in being together that I can suggest more therapy.

I think the thing that is so sad is that his innocence ( however much or little he had at the time ) was stolen, and he never had a chance to be a teen boy falling for a teen girl, the prom the whole high school thing.

Thank you to all of you for your support. It's so nice to have a place to come where there's no condemnation or prejudice. That we're a community learning from each other and working towards healthy solutions to life's challenges.

StarShine

[heartofagopi]

Dear Starshine,

You are totally welcome here. Also, we can discuss many things like how to be compassionate without "mothering" a man. We can discuss *Boundaries* and challenges that sensitive and giving women have when feeling a lot of empathy for a man who has suffered abuse as a child.

We can also look at the idea that as motherly women, we may add some projection or transference into this situation. We may think compassionate thoughts that confuse/blur boundaries where we imagine "wow...what if that happened to me or to my children"...???

So many emotions from OUR side can add overlay after overlay to our relationship. Those kinds of things can be discussed here ***to a degree**. But HIS specific issue needs personal attention as does your part in his life.

I'm glad you see the value of this point.

Dr Paul's Mind OS program is still going to be of great help to you here even with personal counseling. The tools and visuals are extremely useful for us when we manage ouselves daily in ALL of our relationships. Understanding clearly the difference between boundary doors and boundary holes...and SO much more....is systematically explained in this program.

Trust me, I am NOT a scientific type and far from geeky....and I used to make fun of people who talked in what I called "psychobabble". But Dr. Paul's Mind OS spoke to me on a level I could understand....AND in a way that I could easily put into practice daily!!

Welcome to the new site! Hang out with us and feel free to ask questions. Read the newsletters, do the asssignments, get on the teleseminars and you will LOVE being able to use your Observing Ego more and more as you watch human behavior and "de-code" it using this simple and effective system!!!

Post some more questions in the categories below!

All the best,

Heart

[StarShine]

Dear Heart,

Thanks so much for the kind words. I really wish I'd felt a mothering or protective reaction to this revelation. Unfortunately for me, I feel total repulsion. And I feel so terrible about feeling this way. Since he told me this, our relationship/friendship has a weird tone to it. I have pulled back and so has he. I'm just going to let it rip here. I won't discuss this with family and friends, because it infuriates them... just the little I've mentioned.

I have so many "dealbreaker" issues. And here they are"

1)When we met, I was led to understand that he had the resources to court me. Within the past month, I find that he does not at this time. He is a salesman, and the next big deal is always moments away....always tomorrow...always next week. At first the agreement was to go dutch treat until he was in the black again financially. That was over a month ago, and now I find I am picking up all the tabs. We don't go anywhere, because I won't foot the bill. So he comes over to my place and we have dinner and go to yoga class, and talk.

2)He drinks heavily....it scares me! He can polish off a bottle of wine in a matter of an hour or two and always insists he is sober enough to make it back to his home....35 miles away.

3) He has been a kept man by several women of substantial means. He seems to crave or at least enjoy the memory of that lifestyle. I am woman of modest means. I can take care of myself, I could even take care of someone who did not seem to need such an opulent lifestyle. He also has no problem telling me about all the things these women did with him, sexually; all the places they went...and on and on. We have no memories of shared times of our own, there is nothing going on here any longer.

4) We met on an internet dating site, and I notice he is on there continually...even still...as a matter of fact he is on there right now, and I question whether his stated feelings for me are genuine.

5) He is still bitter about his divorce, even 10 years after they broke up.

6) And on top of that is my reaction to the abuse he suffered.

I've convinced myself after writing all this down, that maybe it is time to say goodbye.

I need something different than this.

Any thoughts...anyone?

StarShine

[StarShine]

Out of fairness he does have good qualities as well. But those things above are the things that upset me most.

StarShine

[heartofagopi]

So...

Here seems to be the dilemma...

No one in "modern times" who has any growing sense of compassion, WANTS to break off with anyone when she finds out about a partner's childhood trauma. It seems "uncool" as a human being to run when we hear someone was a victim....(if you can hear my voice inflection here).

But...YOU HAVE MANY MANY REASONS to feel that THIS man is simply NOT a comfortable and compatible match for you. You can still be compassionate about this childhood incident which may have caused some of his current challenges, but you don't have to feel motivated to walk the walk with him as a mate. We all know that LOVE of that sort has many names.

If this new information was the straw that broke the camel's back, its because ALL of the other red flags were not red enough until now.

No one ever owes any one relationship. You don't owe him time, energy, love or intimacy . Our hope as friends here is that he seeks professional help. You can't make that choice for him. Only he can. It feels srange to reject someone who has had some very tough stuff. So, let's not look at it as if you are rejecting him as a human....but you ARE sorting out things here and finding aspects of his character that don't feel comfortable for you.

I love the line from Harry met Sally "I just want what I want"....which is NOT a bad thing. If you WANT a man who is secure financially and enjoys treating you to dinner and has other signs of healthy boundaries and maturity....Then, you are aware of your own boundaries and speaking your personal truth.

Here, we are exploring what makes us mature and how we can develop healthy boundaries, self esteem and well being. Those areas of personal growth are discussed so beautifully in the Mind OS program.
We are also interested in becoming aware of how to manage ourselves in flirting and dating and the 7th Sense Program enlightens us there. When we want to understand our instincts, especially in terms of ancient myths, Greek Goddesses, archytypes that have withstood the test of time, then we turn to Complete Feminine Empowerment to open our mind to the amazing lessons and parallels from past and present feminine icons. And, when we want to be sure we know how to quickly discover if a man is a correct match for us in terms of our personality trait compatibility, then KWML Mastery is our program of choice.

The WHOLE study will empower you and help you discover the Science of Being a Woman. Then, years from now, when you look at your list of the reasons you have lost attraction for this man you will own ALL the answers.

I hope you will consider investing in one or more of the above programs and gain the skills to make the adjustments you need to move forward in a direction that makes you happy.

I sincerely hope this man finds a very competent mental health practitioner who guides him toward a more fulfilling life where he can overcome the pain of his past.

Heart

Via phone
No spellcheck

[Paul Dobransky MD]

This is a great question, and sad to see happen - to go through for both of you.

First off, it's very important to draw a boundary. This is definitely not a place for medical treatment or advice, although it is discussion, a willing ear(s), and insightful, thought-provoking ideas here.

But medical treatment and advice comes ONLY from a local doctor's office.

That said, people with trauma can have numerous suggestions for dealing with it that a local doctor, or the man in question's doctor, can provide by going in and discussing it together.

One useful idea is that (from MindOS Mastery at http://www.womenshappiness.com/courses/mindos), psychological trauma can be symbolically looked at as an involuntary invasion of a person's PERSONAL BOUNDARY - perhaps many invasions so to speak. So in MindOS, we learn all about the structure and function of boundaries, and it's very useful for literally what happens for a person with trauma and a person trying to support them.

One example of it is that trauma is an invasion of a boundary, and that can artificially "make it feel like" someone loves or likes someone who has actually abused them. When in reality, it just "feels like" the similar boundary situation where we have VOLUNTARILY joined in what is called "intimacy" such as in a romance.

Second important idea there is to have another thing from MindOS, called Observing Ego - which is the self-awareness and social awareness enough to spot a "mixed up" or miscommunicated boundary. A common one would be to misinterpret a behavior of his as if he is relating to this person from the past (YOU are YOU, NOT her in fact), or else for him to misinterpret something about you or something you do as if responding to HER from the past (when the reality is YOU are YOU and SHE was SHE.) You AREN'T that person - and both Observing Ego awareness and good boundaries on WHO IS WHO needs to be repeatedly pointed out in real time...

...to ground you two and point out what's "real" and current and TODAY about reality.

In PTSD or trauma, it can feel confusing, like reality is hard to spot and live in.

Boundaries are one way to clarify it.

A second large issue in trauma is anxiety in general. And in MindOS there's a diagram called an Anxiety Map - it points out all kinds of ways we experience and use anxiety, and that can be used to again, in real time, with Observing Ego, spot and correct behaviors that don't serve you two well.

PTSD or trauma CAN be cured, but only in a local doctor's office, and no, it doesn't matter the person's age - 9 or 90. It's also one thing that MindOS doesn't directly, immediately help with since the cure is "in person experiential" in the local doctor's office.

our materials however, CAN educate, elucidate, and make clear what's going on in general in a person or a couple's psychology. And sometimes just understanding how things work feels really good, and sets the stage for actual cures locally.

It's also a great kind of thing to discuss LIVE on the weekly teleseminars on tuesday nights. The schedule is HERE:

http://www.womenshappiness.com/ondemand/on-demand-teleseminar-schedule

Anything and everything is fair game to discuss there, LIVE, with me and those attending, by phone or listen on the web, and you can even submit questions that I will answer even if you aren't there. It's RECORDED, so you can listen any time by clicking the link on the date in question the next days after the event.

[StarShine]

@ Dr. Paul,

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I do understand that you cannot treat or advise us, that those things are done locally.

The points you make about personal boundaries definitely strike a cord with me in this situation. It does seem like one minute my friend and I have a good understanding of boundaries and then something will go off track. I know it's one of my own "shortcomings".

When I bought Complete Femine Empowerment a few weeks back, I was torn as to which program to purchase. I chose this one because my career was in a male dominated field, and I tried to take on the corporate persona of the masculine type business woman. It was uncomfortable for me, and eventually I left the field, and ended up being a caregiver for my mother, grandmother and aunt in the space of about 7 years. I have gone through many relationships not romantic ones either, in which I ended up in a role as the "man" of the house, the chief breadwinner, and so on. It was interesting in that I took those things on because of a recurring dream I had as a child. I would dream my dad fell out of the car as we were driving down the road, and I would have to climb over the front seat and drive the car because my mom and sister could not....when my folks divorced I was convinced that this dream was an omen of my future....and it was (self fulfilling prophecy?).

The commments about PTSD helped me realize that perhaps the behaviors that I have found unacceptable may have their roots in the abuse and the PTSD that follows. I see that could be the reason for the many, many women in his life over the years. I also understand what you mean about a confused or mixed up boundary. It's very tempting to label the individual as confused or mixed up rather than the boundary.

I listened in in real time last night to the teleseminar. Thank you for that, it was very helpful.

Lastly, thank you for helping me see that abuse and PTSD can be dealt with at any age. That's comforting in that I've got some of my own issues in that area.

I'm going to take some time to really work through this. Some how this general scenario keeps recurring in my life, a very good indication that I've got some work to do myself.

Have a wonderful day!

StarShine (Caryn)

[StarShine]

@ Heart,

Dear friend thank you for your good counsel. After my little rage on line in my previouse post. I had some very telling self reflections. I have some reflecting to do.

I tried to call my friend, after writing my "rant post" but found he was on his way out here. I wanted time to really reflect on my feelings about all of this. And some time to step back and look at our relationship objectively.

Interestingly enough, when he got here, without my prompting I must add, we had a very good conversation. It clarified the "why's" of some of his need to share the information with me. I guess he needed reassuring that I wasn't like the previous women he'd dated/lived with/married. And then yesterday, when I read Dr. Paul's comments, it seemed a big "aha" moment. All of this related to PTSD...all of it treatable. Not necessarily with me in the picture, but it can at least help him to become 'whole' again.

I don't know that our relationship will go any further, but I am at least willing to step back and check my own reactions to all of this.

I am certain that my reactions stem from my own lack of trust. But that's a post for another time. I will add Mind OS and the Seventh Sense programs to my collection soon. I need to complete the Complete Feminine Empowerment program I bought just before starting to date this man.

Thank you for standing with me!

StarShine (Caryn)

[heartofagopi]

Thank you, Starshine!

It takes a lot of courage to express what you have brought up here.

I'm glad Dr Paul reviewed the discussion and clarified some main points.

In relationship our own BEST qualities can come out and then, our most challenging qualities step in to the dance as well. Light and shadow both make us human and give depth to the picture of who we are.

I'm glad you are investing in Dr Paul's very fine programs. No matter what the Fate of this current relationship.....your relationship with YourSelf is long term! The programs you have chosen will enrich that most important relationship!

We are ALL works in progress here....we are just exploring and learning together. Dr Paul made some most excellent remarks about knowing when to take a problem to a professional medical practitioner; one who treats us personally in our own community. I hope other women here will take that step if/when their personal challenges need medical attention.

Recently I read about the late Betty Ford. I remembered a time when people were "shamed" if they sought psychological counseling /psychotherapy. What courage Mrs. Ford had to make herself the example of a public person who needed help and sought it without fear.

May your friend find the many healing paths that lie before him and may he walk those paths shamelessly to his goal of mental health and wholeness!

All the best to you. Thanks for joining Women's Happiness.

Heart

[Paul Dobransky MD]

Yep, one of the toughest things in the world is breaking up, especially if you are a caring person, and as a woman, you have a "feeder" of feeling passion for life, feminine, and alive - in the form of the "mothering instinct" (which I believe is called the Hera Instinct in the CFE.)

On your side, it's important to remember that many other instincts make you whole and fully feminine - the Artemis instinct for example, which is the gift of accuracy and discriminating choices - she is the "huntress" and you have to "hunt" for that and ONLY that which is right for you in a man.

If you add to this that the last lesson of Aphrodite to Psyche is that she must learn to "betray all others to stay true to her last mission" (and capture the treasure of Persephone from the Underworld), she has to turn her back on the beggars and the starving, keeping her bean cakes for HERSELF to get past Cerberus the 3-headed dog...

Anyway, there's also the poem, "The Invitation" by Oriah Mountain Dreamer. In it she says "I want to know you can betray another so as to not betray YOURSELF."

You HAVE to remember that when with a person in need who may not be right for you.

Good boundaries means that you don't "owe" or "own" them or their troubles. You are a partner while you are partners. Not an appendage of them.

[StarShine]

Dr. Paul,

Thank you for this last post. You know exactly what I am wrestling with in my mind. I can see the longer I delay breaking off this relationship, the more deeply involved we become. I am not totally convinced I am not being "played" in hopes that I'll step up to the plate financially and bail him out of his money problems. There doesn't seem to be any real desire to work on the PTSD any further on his part. I don't know if this stems from lack of resources or something else.

I can see my needs aren't being met in any substantial way. And I'm not talking about financial or entertainment resources, but emotionally. I ended up having to have a medical procedure a week ago, and was supposed to stay in bed 24 hours afterwards. He wanted to come and "take care of me" make me smoothies, etc. Needless to say, I was fixing dinner for him and basically playing hostess when I should have been taking it easy. This has really angered me. I pointed out that he had not taken care of me as he promised, by teasing him and telling him he needed to take some home nursing classes.

I am at the point of trying to figure out a time and place for "the talk". I believe it has to happen this week.

Thanks again,

StarShine

[StarShine]

Dr Paul & Heart,

I want to thank you for a particular thing that you said in a previous post. Regarding my friend's abuser, that it was important to realize that I am not her.

My friend made a reference to her last week, and how feminine her behavior was. And it was the most amazing thing to me, I didn't hook into to the comment, didn't try to act like this woman, just saw so clearly that it was no part of my make up. He dropped the subject, and hasn't mentioned her since. In fact, I've seen clearly that all of the women in his past are not me, will never be me, and I was never them. It's taken all sense of jealousy and competition out of the equation. It seems as if we're getting on so much better.

Another thing that's happened is that we're working on projects together as a team. It's been very positive and helped him focus on the positive things in his life. And hopefully these things will help his financial situation.

I don't know if he's a long-term partner or someone here to help me grow just for now. But I've allowed myself to enjoy his company without obsessing about the outcome.

I am so much happier now. It's not that he's changed, but I've changed.

I am so grateful for your help.

Thanks again,

StarShine