women only

[ArtMuse]

HereIAm!

It's so good to see you posting again! Great to have you back ~ and glad you're still with us despite the changes.

How are things with you these days? What's new and good?

Warmly,
L'Art

[Cheryl]

I agree with HereIAm. As long as I have been here and on the men's forum, most of the female-male interactions (with perhaps one or two exceptions) have been positive. Most of the respondents know some if not all of the materials and are able to give each other their own insights based on this and reflected also in the experiences of their individual lives. There is a lot of immediate feedback on what is being learned and what is and is not working on both sides. For the most part, and unlike other forum sites available, there has existed an attitude of respect between the genders. Who better to ask what a man is thinking or feeling than another man. I am for this.

I have loved the men's forum. My heart has been touched many times by their struggles and entertained by their silliness.

[HereIAm]

I just read that if you find your opposite you will have a friend for life. Well, that is true unless you have some sort of communication problem, or they have a family problem that you don't want to get involved in, or something along those lines.

I find there is still communication problems because of our baggage and the way we react to new people in the old manner or because of our bad experiences from the past.

Men have a way of dealing with women that is their own understanding of what they think we are doing, which is not correct. They have some preconceived set of guidelines. Examples which I have read and seen the same in how men react:

When a woman calls a man say 3 times in a week she wants to date him.

A lot of these men want the woman to come to them, well that isn't going to work out for a love relationship. This also is not romance or what a woman wants. They want to find a partner but don't or can't do the work it takes to treat a woman the right way.

They also make a big deal about doing something like making dinner for a woman when it's no big deal. People have to eat.

A lot of men end up trying to get the woman to call them, and then they don't have to call, and they just go do what they want to do. This is not romance and again not what a woman wants.

Men have a hard time to figure out where your work fits in with theirs. They keep pondering it in the discussions. If the woman comes up with ideas, they feel like their occupation is not good enough, and want to get out of the relationship.

I would say at least 85 - 99.99 % of men have pornographic pictures in their email boxes. Men send them to other men. I was a recipient of several of these from one divorced guy, and was wondering why he sent it to me. He has made comments about really liking to look at women only ~18 to 22 yrs old in a beauty contest in his area. He joined the gym just to go look at the women was another comment. He wasn't talking about getting himself into shape or better health. I would suspect that if I sat down and looked at someone's email I would find at least one porno type of email from a buddy in a guy's email account. I did that once and low and behold I found one. They forget that I would rather be looking at a gorgeous guy who doesn't look like them and one who is interested in me than them who does not know how to interact with a woman. At some point, porn pictures make you feel that you are not good enough for them. They want star quality, cheerleader quality or whatever.

How can you connect with a man through some emotional connection when he's not thinking that way? How do you connect with a man through his emotions?

Some of these men think that you are a buddy to them. They want to know if you like basketball so you can join them on the coach like their buddy so they are more comfortable and get that at home friendly buddy feeling with you.

I think these men are not realistic when it comes to women. Women are not realistic when it comes to men either. I do like knowing more about men over time. It makes me more relaxed, more in control of my life, and feeling that I can find a man anywhere and understand him better, but these little things are still cropping up when talking to them. They are trying to figure out what type of person (woman) I am and this is the hard part for me when it is so easy for them.
The longer I talk with them I get to know them more and then decide they are not really right for me so far.

I have so many questions.... still.

[Paul Dobransky MD]

And why is that, if I may ask? I think we would benefit if men could post in here.

There's going to be a new and secondary forum where men and women can both both and chat with each other.

From years of doing this ive found some, not all, but a majority of both men and women feel like holding back, censoring their questions and needs because they feel watched by the other gender. Also we speak to men and women in the kind of language specific to and addressing the needs of that gender. If we open it up to both, there will be all kinds of debates and misunderstanding that takes enormous translating work and mediation to solve.

Which is the purpose of the course anyway - to reach that understanding.

So in the new additional forum, men and women can talk, cross back to their "own turf" to talk with their friends and same gender, then cross back if they like.

[Paul Dobransky MD]

Hi Dr. Paul, Coaches and Forum Members,

I would like to propose we let male forum members in, however, we could be allowed to start individual threads and make them women only.

I'd love to get male input on many, even most, ideas and questions.

- Nikki

Oh definitely male moderators can do that. This way we know they have training and understanding of both the concepts presented, and understanding of women in general.

Just imagine if some random male member, 23 years old, came in here spouting male views that have no basis in the coursework, or in life's experience into the late twenties, thirties forties or beyond, and simply inadvertently offended women?

Then either many would leave or you'd end up having to TEACH him instead of discuss and learn...

[Paul Dobransky MD]

"Men have a way of dealing with women that is their own understanding of what they think we are doing, which is not correct. They have some preconceived set of guidelines. Examples which I have read and seen the same in how men react:"

Yes, this is in the Complete Feminine Empowerment course for women, and men have an equivalent course.

http://www.womenshappiness.com/complete-feminine-empowerment

[Paul Dobransky MD]

"A lot of these men want the woman to come to them, well that isn't going to work out for a love relationship. This also is not romance or what a woman wants. They want to find a partner but don't or can't do the work it takes to treat a woman the right way.

They also make a big deal about doing something like making dinner for a woman when it's no big deal. People have to eat.

A lot of men end up trying to get the woman to call them, and then they don't have to call, and they just go do what they want to do. This is not romance and again not what a woman wants."

This is deeply, richly covered in the Seventh Sense Program for women, and men have their equivalent, so that they can not only come to understand each other, but walk through the steps of courtship in the way the other needs.

http://www.womenshappiness.com/seventh-sense

[Paul Dobransky MD]

"I would say at least 85 - 99.99 % of men have pornographic pictures in their email boxes. Men send them to other men. I was a recipient of several of these from one divorced guy, and was wondering why he sent it to me. He has made comments about really liking to look at women only ~18 to 22 yrs old in a beauty contest in his area. He joined the gym just to go look at the women was another comment. He wasn't talking about getting himself into shape or better health. I would suspect that if I sat down and looked at someone's email I would find at least one porno type of email from a buddy in a guy's email account. I did that once and low and behold I found one. They forget that I would rather be looking at a gorgeous guy who doesn't look like them and one who is interested in me than them who does not know how to interact with a woman. At some point, porn pictures make you feel that you are not good enough for them. They want star quality, cheerleader quality or whatever."

Yes this, Brett Favre, sexting, sex addiction and all that are explained in some of the many research studies on what is different about male fantasy lives from those of women. The one I cite often is from the early 2000s, where they looked at men's vs women's fantasies - over 90% of male fantasies were visual and of the sex act itself, positions etc, and those of women were about SENSATIONS, the nature of touch, feelings etc.

ALL fantasies are normal. What is not normal is acting on them in socially inappropriate ways. Thus, Brett Favre. But he was not bad because he's MALE, nor because he had visual fantasies, but simply because he had poor BOUNDARIES, as just as many women can suffer of. e.g. men are not bad because their style of fantasy differs from that of women, nor are women bad for not thinking and fantasizing like men.

We are equal but different, and different doesn't mean unequal.

Men may abhor dildoes, but that doesn't make dildoes bad. Many among half the human population don't mind them, and many among the male population feel the same about visual fantasy.

[Paul Dobransky MD]

"How can you connect with a man through some emotional connection when he's not thinking that way? How do you connect with a man through his emotions?

Some of these men think that you are a buddy to them. They want to know if you like basketball so you can join them on the coach like their buddy so they are more comfortable and get that at home friendly buddy feeling with you."

You key in on an insight here.

Men and women BOTH have emotions. They do, and it falls onto YOU to learn how to access the male's and falls on THEM to learn how to access yours. If, that is, we want a mate, romance etc. People don't owe each other understanding, insight, or a relationship in general. But we can offer these things if we want them in return. All relationships are voluntary, at the beginning, the middle, and if we don't yet get it, certainly we find out this at the end of them.

Males get to emotion if they first feel MASCULINE. This is their job to find, but if you want them involved in your life, you need to be a source of aiding and abetting the masculinity.

Men who want to know you must first be a source of your feeling FEMININE, otherwise, why would you want to reveal YOUR emotions to THEM? So it falls on THEM to learn this, and they have coursework to teach them.

Males feel more masculine for all the reasons listed in many of the slides of the Seventh Sense Program toward the beginning:

http://www.womenshappiness.com/seventh-sense

And also some of the greek gods and mythology mentioned in the CFE:

http://www.womenshappiness.com/complete-feminine-empowerment

[Paul Dobransky MD]

"I think these men are not realistic when it comes to women. Women are not realistic when it comes to men either. I do like knowing more about men over time. It makes me more relaxed, more in control of my life, and feeling that I can find a man anywhere and understand him better, but these little things are still cropping up when talking to them. They are trying to figure out what type of person (woman) I am and this is the hard part for me when it is so easy for them.
The longer I talk with them I get to know them more and then decide they are not really right for me so far."

Which is yet another strong case why male members are not allowed here and female members are not allowed on the men's side: there are numerous high quality men and women EVERYWHERE, and they deserve to not be hurt, misunderstood, or bullied in any way, through the translation of each other's language of gender.

Notice that with time, learning a foreign language for either men or women leads them SLOWLY to more understanding and empathy of the other. But that takes time, not a sudden diving in....

This place is not like a city street with random people. It's more like a school. And in going to school we need to read our textbooks.

SO I put all the relevant courses above in a way tied to the topic at hand.

Thanks, it's great stuff!

http://www.womenshappiness.com/courses