is a woman's success attractive to a mature man on any level

[jess]

Good day all, I have another somewhat random question arising from my study of the seventh sense program...

My question is about attractors for men. I am wondering where a woman's ability to be independent and succeed in the world fits in to the attraction process, if at all??

Obviously many successful and independent women do find partners, but is this just in spite of these qualities, or do you think a mature man would be impressed on some level by a woman who is accomplished? Certainly men claim this if asked (ie that they admire success and women who get out and make the most of their lives) although it seems to not be clearcut that they are likely to commit to such women, or whether their success is part of what makes the woman an attractive partner.

I read an article recently about "funny women" and a survey of men which found that in general men don't want "funny women" for serious relationships, as they prefer to be the funnier one in the couple (though of course during flings etc they will enjoy the banter and humour on offer). Similar findings are out there about career success and this seems consistent with Dr Paul's teachings. However there ARE men around who seem to genuinely be attracted to successful women (or at least claim to be) - is this a mature or immature impulse on the part of the man?

I am quite independent and I like to think quite funny and adventurous, and I do have an interesting career I know that when I meet new people, including men, they are often impressed and interested in me on that basis, and I gain a lot of attention from men that way. My last boyfriend absolutely LOVED the fact I had a sense of humour and was an independent person - however that relationship did not work out. unfortunately I have found on the whole the men who find this to be a "turn on" are ofter lazy and immature (ie looking for a mother figure). or perhaps just not the right temperament for me (although independent and somewhat "achievement oriented" I would say I'm more passive than assertive by nature, and it seems to be mainly passive guys that I attract with this "assertive-like" persona of making jokes and being self sufficient and engaged in the world etc...).

But maybe this link is something I'm just imagining, and attracting passive or immature guys is due to a whole other reason?

I don't want to "dull my light" but I do want to make space for an assertive man to come and engage with me and feel that he has a role in my life. Also I do get compliments and attention from men in relation to being witty and having an interesting career, all of which is feminizing in the short term sense. SO are these attributes I can "work"/utilise in any way toward attracting a relationship with a man, or are those skills just for attracting new friends and/or career networking (and/or for attracting passive/immature guys)? I am proud of my accomplishments, for example buying my own property and travelling independently, being funny etc. And although I would never brag or try to outshine a man (I am fairly humble by nature anyway -despite how this post might sound!), in a way I feel like I "deserve credit" for all my accomplishments when it comes to the dating game. I carry a belief that a man "should" want a woman who can take care of herself and make a financial contribution to a future household together, as opposed to a trophy wife or someone well below his own intellectual competence - surely he would be happier then with someone he can really respect and connect with? So my question really is, do men on any level want or appreciate or respect this, as I feel they "should"? and in my personal case, is finding the right relationship with a mature going to come IN SPITE of my self-sufficiency and assertive side to my personality, or will it ASSIST with the right man?

thanks in advance for your thoughts
Jess

[fredd1]

Hi Jess,

I would like to thank you for asking this question. My friends, myself included, feel that we are somewhat conflicted in how things are interpreted and how things really seem to be. Guys seem to always say they want funny, smart and witty, but also the ones who would be our equal don't want what would be perceived as competition or maybe a woman who is not afraid to speak her mind or have an opinion. Looking for a real "warrior" man also. I hope your post receives a reply. I will be looking forward to the response. Good luck!

[ArtMuse]

Hi Jess and fredd1 ~

Actually, Fredd, part of your post reflects a clue to the answer.

Jess you have the Seventh Sense Program ~
It's important to differentiate between purpose for women, mission for men, and attraction between the two.

If a woman's career means she has no time to devote to a man, as a woman [not the same as pursuing purpose via a career], then there is either an imbalance in the division of applied action in everyday life, a mis-match in temperament or maturity between the man and the woman, or a lack of understanding of gender instincts.

The programs provided by Dr. Paul are intended to help us sort out these differences, and find practical application of our time and energy to help us connect ~ both with our purpose as women, in vetting men for a good fit for ourselves, and with men in rewarding, win/win relationships.

Once you separate these things in your own mind, the program materials become clearer.

Do you know the equations for femininity, for masculinity?

[jess]

Hi Artmuse, I do know the equations for masculinity and femininity, and I was thinking about the fact that career can be part of one's purpose and therefore feminizing, so that is indirectly linked to "attracting men" in a positive way....

But my question I intended to be a bit more specific about whether or not a woman being "accomplished" as an attribute in and of itself (as opposed necessarily to being "in line with her purpose") has any bearing on making her MORE attractive to a man? eg do mature men particularly want and intellectual equal? Do they feel a lack if they are with less intelligent women, or an uneasy burden being with women who are dependent on them to the point they (the woman) could not support themselves financially if the relationship fell apart? or does this just make them feel more manly? is there any part of the mating game whereby the mature man having respect and admiration for the woman's accomplishments can add richness to the relationship, and form part of the bond they share? or does that chain of logic only apply if the man is a bit immature and therefore looking for a mother figure/codependent type relationship??

thanks in advance
fredd1 - I'm glad you like the question and interesting to hear that you and your friends have similar dilemmas

[janiceh]

But my question I intended to be a bit more specific about whether or not a woman being "accomplished" as an attribute in and of itself (as opposed necessarily to being "in line with her purpose") has any bearing on making her MORE attractive to a man? eg do mature men particularly want and intellectual equal? Do they feel a lack if they are with less intelligent women, or an uneasy burden being with women who are dependent on them to the point they (the woman) could not support themselves financially if the relationship fell apart? or does this just make them feel more manly? is there any part of the mating game whereby the mature man having respect and admiration for the woman's accomplishments can add richness to the relationship, and form part of the bond they share? or does that chain of logic only apply if the man is a bit immature and therefore looking for a mother figure/codependent type relationship??

Hi Jess (and Fredd1),

As is laid out in Seventh Sense, most of what you're asking fits into the third and 'final' phase of courtship, ie it sits in the higher mind and involves intellectual compatibility, good boundaries, shared goals, values and beliefs etc.

So in terms of a serious commitment/marriage, compatibility on these fronts is very important and yes, is attractive to a man who is seeking a partner in life who can contribute to the resources of the coupling, is a good team mate in life, is an interesting and capable person and whose purpose or career enriches his life with her.

That said, the first two phases of courtship need to be accomplished before any of this becomes particularly 'relevant' to the man, if you like.

When a man meets a woman, his first 'concern' is whether or not he's attracted to her sexually. In dating terms, anyway. Even if he meets a woman via his work or in a work environment, he will still 'assess' her attractiveness to him in sexual terms at some level. He may grow to be impressed by her professional abilities etc., and respect her on that level, but none of that will mean anything in relationship terms unless he's physically attracted to her.

So, does it make her MORE attractive to him? Yes. Is it of significant importance to him initially or in the earlier days? Not particularly. It's more like part of the package, if you like, ie she's smart, she's successful, got her act together, interesting etc., but is she FUN, is she SEXY, do I love being around her, does she make me feel good, do I LIKE her as a person (friendship/emotional) etc., all comes before that.

Obviously if a woman is unemployed, uneducated etc., then that might be 'unattractive' to a man in relationship terms, but that won't stop him trying to sleep with her if he finds her sexually attractive.

A lot of successful women make the mistake of thinking that her success *should* be something that attracts him and they spend too much time in early dates *promoting* their success, trying to hold interesting intellectual conversations, talking about current affairs etc., and yet all the man really cares about at that point is whether he enjoys her company at a fun/friendship level and whether he finds her sexy.

In answer to whether men are intimidated by a woman's success, this also depends on his experience of her as a woman when they're together and obviously on his own degree of confidence and emotional strength.

That said, a man is instinctually driven to be the leader, the provider etc. So at an instinctual level he needs to feel that he has something of value to offer a woman. If the woman earns significantly more than him or if she runs a multi-million dollar business and works a 60 hour week doing so, he likely won't find that particularly inspiring in a relationship context, even if he respects her enormously for achieving what she's achieved.

It's important that women have their own passion and life, so to speak. But in relating to men on a personal basis, it's also important for her to remember that when he takes time out of HIS demanding career or passion to be with a woman that he experiences the 'opposite' of all that masculine activity, ie the woman offers him the pure pleasure of feminine energy and presence and doesn't make him feel like he's in yet another business meeting . That's not why he's dating you. He can have all the intellectual and challenging discussions he likes at HIS work.

So if men say you're funny and witty, then use that wit with sexy and fun texting or in your conversation with them. Stimulate them mentally via that, rather than discussing latest wall street statistics. I'm being extreme, I know, but using it to get the gist across.

Men don't want to have to compete with their woman. They want to be her hero, her shining light. The right man will respect and admire a smart, successful woman, but he won't care if she's a ball breaker in personality or if she's masculine in energy when in his company.

Last night the film The Ugly Truth was on tellie and I watched it again. There's a lot of truth in that film in terms of what he 'teaches' her about what men want. The main female character (Abby, I think her name is), is a successful producer, very smart and switched on in her work. But it's not THAT which attracts him per se.

For many women today, it is an anathema to think that a man is still as 'basic' as being attracted to a woman on a sexual basis first and foremost instead of her brains and success. But in the end, in that film above, despite all her checklists and romanticised notion of the perfect man, she falls for the guy who is very masculine, ruffles her feathers, is fun. He 'disgusts' her initially with his reptilian stuff, but ultimately sees there's more to him than that, and she realises she is far more attracted to him in real terms than she is to the man who represents her 'perfect guy'.

I would like to thank you for asking this question. My friends, myself included, feel that we are somewhat conflicted in how things are interpreted and how things really seem to be. Guys seem to always say they want funny, smart and witty, but also the ones who would be our equal don't want what would be perceived as competition or maybe a woman who is not afraid to speak her mind or have an opinion. Looking for a real "warrior" man also. I hope your post receives a reply. I will be looking forward to the response. Good luck!

If this is your experience (or that of your friends), then it's possible that the experience the MEN have in being with you and your friends is that it IS a competition. He competes all day at work. Yes a man wants a woman who gives him the 'chase'. And yes he wants a woman who stimulates him mentally as well as physically and emotionally, but he DOESN'T want that stimulation (most of the time) to be about who's the smartest or most successful.

It's not about a woman not being 'allowed' to speak her mind or have an opinion. It's about the way she expresses it, owns it, her own 'security' in what she thinks and believes, her boundaries surrounding that - and surrounding his OWN right to have his own views and beliefs etc. Most half decent men don't want a woman who has no brain, opinion or individuality. But again, if she's ramming it down his throat and is ball-breaking in how she delivers it, he will tire of conversing with her instead of being stimulated by it.

And let's face it. If you don't agree with him, if you don't respect his opinions or particularly like his views in life, then there's clearly a lack of compatibility, isn't there? And vice versa. We can all like a partner who opens our minds to alternative ways of thinking or who complements our own style of thinking, but if the discord is too great or if it becomes a battle ground of who's right and who's wrong, then it's just not going to work. Not for either party.

[jess]

Janiceh - thank you so much for your response. You have given me (and hopefully fredd1 and others ) quite a lot to think about in your post, but basically it all makes perfect sense - and is good news that men will value some of the higher brain capabilities of a woman eventually if the dating moves on to potential commitment...

As a followup observation, there are a lot of couples out there however where the woman does NOT seem to match the man intellectually. do you think a man CAN be happy with that (notwithstanding that an intellectual equal and partner in life is something he could appreciate if it was presented to him)? Or would he become overwhelmed with the burden of being the sole provider and/or intellectually active partner? Do you think a more masculine/alpha man would be more or less likely to accept a partner that was "inferior" in terms of capability, intellect and potential to e independent if the situation was called for?

Just a food-for-thought follow up question, I'm very interested in your views....

Jess

[fredd1]

Thanks Janet and Jess for the responses and for including me in the responses.
Yes, it is a lot to ponder. I have yet to get past the early dating stages with more intellectual men. I do not know why the ones I have met seem to go for someone that is financially secure ( through family ties rather than their own accomplishments). I guess maybe I am meeting immature men. That being said, most of these men are in their forties! I don't need anyone to provide for me, however, the men who are attracted to me would like me to provide for them. If they are financially successful, they seem to seek out younger women with a wealthier family. I know this sounds shallow however, unfortunately, this has been my experience. I have spoken to my male friends and they tell me I am meeting the wrong men from both ends of the spectrum. I meet men from all different venues, so I am not sure if I am putting some type of vibe out there. I am hoping for some insight through these discussions. Thank you both!

[janiceh]

there are a lot of couples out there however where the woman does NOT seem to match the man intellectually. do you think a man CAN be happy with that

Yes, I do. Most definitely. But it also depends on what kind of intellect you're talking about.

For example, some women are absolute geniuses when it comes to men, but might have a regular run-of-the-mill type career and not all that 'brilliant' in IQ terms. Some people have massive IQs but are really 'dumb' in EQ terms (emotional intelligence). So when you're talking about an intellectual match, I'm presuming you're talking about IQ terms, ie one is smarter than the other in that regard.

Also, some women are are very VERY smart, both in IQ terms and with men, and they understand that they don't NEED to forever point out to the man or 'show' him that she's smart.

If a woman is great with her man, he will 'forgive' any 'lesser' intelligence simply because she makes him feel like King of the world. He doesn't care if she got 99% score in her Maths degree or 10%. What a man MIGHT care about, though, is how she is with her money and if he perceives her as being 'useless' with money, he might not want her as a committed partner.

Your post reminded me of a couple I've seen on telly here in Australia. The man is 60 something (I think) and very wealthy. A high profile business guy. His wife is a 30 something (I think) buxom blonde Texan. They (she) get huge media coverage when they attend major evening events because she usually wears incredibly scant and revealing dresses with boobs bursting out all of the place haha.

At first glance one would say it was the typical matching of a blonde bimbo/playmate with the old rich guy. HOWEVER, I have seen this woman interviewed on telly and she strikes me as one of those women who might 'allow' people to think she's a dumb blonde, but is actually not that at all. Nor does she come across as the typical blonde bimbo who's simply married the guy for his money. Not saying that wasn't part of the appeal, of course, but it doesn't seem like that's ALL it was about, not by a long shot.

Is she as smart as he is?? Have no idea. On the surface, he's the guy who's made millions so clearly is no dummy. She's much younger and I don't know what her financial background or career is/was, but it's clear her life is with him now, anyway, so she's more into charity work etc. anyway. She has a lovely, warm, genuine personality and manner. Very feminine, very down to earth. She's no giggly dumb blonde, of that I'm pretty sure .

Whenever I see them together, her guy looks like the cat that got the cream. He has a stunningly sexy woman on his arm whom he appears to clearly adore. As does she him.

Seems to me, they're both 'smart' and have both got what they 'want'.

Or would he become overwhelmed with the burden of being the sole provider and/or intellectually active partner?

This would depend on whether the woman was a drag on his resources or not, ie (again) utterly hopeless with money (spends all his earnings), very passive in terms of contribution to the partnership, emotionally weak etc. In other words, do they make a good team?

Being good team mates doesn't always mean having the same strengths. In fact, as per the KWML program on the friendship aspect of a coupling, having opposite strengths and weaknesses can make for a very powerful coupling, as long as the individuals recognise and respect that in each other and don't spend the entire marriage trying to make the other like them.

And don't forget that a man is driven to be the leader and men LIKE to be needed at some level. Not at a dysfunctional level, obviously, but he wants to know that his woman looks up to him and yeah, needs him at some level.

If a man is working his balls off to provide for a family but doesn't ever feel like it's good enough or that his role in the family is dispensible (ie the woman can do just as good a job with or without him kinda thing), then why would he be inspired to give up all other women? He NEEDS to feel like he's the leader and that he's respected for that. The woman NEEDS also to feel that HER unique role in the partnership is also respected, of course, but then that's what good marriages are founded upon and maintain.

Do you think a more masculine/alpha man would be more or less likely to accept a partner that was "inferior" in terms of capability, intellect and potential to e independent if the situation was called for?

I guess this depends on how you perceive an alpha man to be, doesn't it?

Masculinity derives from the reptilian brain, so one could 'argue' that alphaness in the traditional/biological sense sits there too. At that level (instinctual/biological), the man is, again, driven to be the leader, so there's that part of him who would actually *like* his woman to be a bit dependent on him and yes, maybe even 'inferior' in IQ intelligence etc. In caveman terms, he's going to select the most beautiful and healthiest woman for his mate and one who's going to make the best mother for his offspring, isn't he? So it's the FEMININE strengths he will seek out, not the MASCULINE strengths. It's his job to provide those .

Once you move out of the reptilian zone and into friendship (mamallian) and higher mind (intellect), then yes, the ability of the woman to be a strong, reliable partner who is capable of managing things if the situation called for it, would be of appeal.

I suppose what I'm saying is this. A man wants a woman for her femininity. That doesn't mean she has to be *stupid* and nor is it saying that being intellectually smart is unfeminine. But if she takes on masculine traits as part of that then the polar opposite of femininity and masculinity will be diminished - and it is that polar opposite that attracts and brings passion to a relationship. The more feminine a woman is, the more attractive she will be to a masculine man and vice versa. If she moves too much into the masculine zone, he will become *less* attracted to her...and vice versa.

I'll deal with that more in my response to Fredd1....

[janiceh]

I have yet to get past the early dating stages with more intellectual men.

What does "more intellectual men" actually mean? More successful? Richer? Smarter in IQ terms? I could interpret that many ways, so would be helpful for you to clarify what you mean by that. (To me, when someone says "more intellectual", I automatically picture a *grey* man who's either or both anally retentive/academic type haha....so you get why I'm asking ).

I do not know why the ones I have met seem to go for someone that is financially secure ( through family ties rather than their own accomplishments).

Are these men from wealthy family backgrounds too? If you're meeting men who seem to be seeking a woman who's got a wealthy family behind her, then it's either because he's got that and doesn't want to get sucked into a golddigger situation...or because he HASN'T got that background and fancies the idea of getting one haha. In simple terms, anyway.

Gotta also be careful you're not projecting your own thoughts onto these guys, too. For example, if you're dating a guy from a wealthy background and you are NOT of that background, it could be you projecting YOUR insecurities on to him .

That being said, most of these men are in their forties! I don't need anyone to provide for me, however, the men who are attracted to me would like me to provide for them.

Hmmm....interesting. Most women today don't NEED a man to provide for them, let's face it. Not in purely financial terms, anyway. But it's very interesting to me that the men who are attracted to you apparently want you to provide for THEM.

Assuming that your perception of that is correct (and not projection again - which it could be), then that would suggest to me that you have, indeed, adopted masculine traits in your personality/demeanour which is in turn attracting men who've adopted feminine traits - or, more to the point, are low in masculinity/disconnected from their masculinity. Therefore.....the masculine/feminine polarity has been diminished.

There ARE men out there who have given up the 'battle', so to speak (re their masculinity) and take the stance of thinking it would be 'great' to have a woman provide for them. They're being naive because it would ultimately destroy their masculinity further. And it would destroy your femininity further too. A coupling of this kind would find both people moving further towards the centre of masculine/feminine polarity which would quite likely completely destroy any passion or sexual attraction between the two of them at some point.

There are some women and some men who ARE more like their 'opposite' in this regard, so it can sometimes work that a very masculine woman matches with a very feminine man. But in the main, it's not how it 'works'. They are 'outliers', if you like.

If they are financially successful, they seem to seek out younger women with a wealthier family. I know this sounds shallow however, unfortunately, this has been my experience.

Richer men are more able to attract beautiful women. That's a fact. That's instincts at play - the woman seeking the best 'provider', the man seeking the most fertile/healthy 'mother'.

So yeah, a man who has 'more' options, so to speak, may well go for younger women. Actually most men would do this as they get older if they *could*, at a purely reptilian level. Not all men *just* want a young beautiful wife, though. Some actually DO seek the other attributes to a partnership too, ie emotional and intellectual compatibility that is sometimes difficult to find in a much younger partner. But men are very visual, so as they get older and women of their own age are getting older too (of course), they will be visually attracted to much younger women than them.

The other thing is that if he is wealthy, he may well be at some level 'concerned' about gold diggers, so if he chooses a partner that matches his background in this regard, he not only has someone who is part of his 'world', but also someone who has less 'need' for his resources AND can actually add to them rather than potentially deplete them.

All that said, don't forget that men can feel as objectified by their wealth as women can be by their beauty, so a wealthy man very often still needs to feel that the woman is with him because of HIM and not because of his money or status per se. In this regard, he is 'safer' if the woman is from the same kind of background, isn't he? In his mind, I mean - even if subconsciously.

I have spoken to my male friends and they tell me I am meeting the wrong men from both ends of the spectrum. I meet men from all different venues, so I am not sure if I am putting some type of vibe out there.

I'm not sure if you're putting out some vibe there, either. By that I mean....(possible scenarios):
- Are you projecting without realising it?
- Have you developed masculine traits/are you emitting a masculine "vibe" that is attracting the wrong type of man and/or is 'putting off' the more masculine ones?
- Are you equating intellect with money?
- Is being 'rich' on your checklist for your perfect man?
- Are you seeking to be 'approved of' or 'attractive' to men VIA your intellect/career success?? Are you of the view that it is THAT that will attract the 'right' kind of man simply because you want a man of similar ilk?

Don't get me wrong, Fredd1, there's nothing wrong with you wanting a man who is at least as successful as you. But if you're focusing on that too much in terms of what will attract HIM to YOU, then yes, you're giving off the wrong vibe potentially.

Have a think about those questions, anyway, and come back to us with your thoughts. It might help us get some more insights together .

[fredd1]

Janice ,
I just posted a reply and lost it! Ugh! My head us swimming. Is this all supposed to be second nature? Yes, maybe I am projecting, not sure if I know how that really works or how it is perceived. I know I have come a long way from no money to doing pretty well. I'm far from wealthy but would appreciate a man who recognizes how far I've come. I want a man who respects that and yes I have been around much wealthier men recently. I must say its a whole new world for me. I divorced a man who used me for my drive so he didn't have to try or work hard. I have dated a man from a wealthy family and I thought I was fitting in okay but maybe you are correct about projecting. How do I know? I'm not one to pretend I have more than I do but I don't run after men for their wealth. I want someone stable and who can take care of himself. I know I have a lot to learn and sometimes I can be more masculine when I am insecure. However, I can also go in the other direction and become needy. I try to recognize this by observing ego but it's difficult to know until it's happening. I grew up without a mother and father so I did not have role models. I am now in my forties and there seems to be so much I don't know. I don't want to become disenchanted but I realize that men of certain means can and will seek younger women. I will not settle for anything less than a man who loves me for who I am , what I have achieved and knows who he is and respects me . I hope I am not asking for the world. I think I'm being reasonable . Thank you both for your insights. This forum is wonderful !

[janiceh]

I just posted a reply and lost it! Ugh!

Hate it when that happens . Maybe it's clearer this time round?

Is this all supposed to be second nature?

No, there's no 'supposed' to be about it, really. You are wise and brave enough to seek to learn in response to challenges in your life. Not all people do, you know . And everyone's path in life differs, so I can assure you this is NOT second nature to everyone, not at all.

Yes, maybe I am projecting, not sure if I know how that really works or how it is perceived.

This can be difficult (to identify, I mean). Look it up on the Wiki here on the site. It comes with your membership, so don't forget to go exploring .

Basically projection is when we 'think' someone else is thinking something that WE'RE actually thinking. So if somewhere deep down in your pscyhe you don't think you're 'good enough' for a wealthy man with a wealthy family background, you will subconsciously project that on to him and see it as HIS perception/thoughts etc., when in actual fact it's yours.

One way of trying to work out which is which is when you're feeling angst of some kind around something, to really stop and consider how YOU feel about this in your own mind. Very often you'll find that it IS coming from you and not the other person. The other thing is to not jump to conclusions or assumptions as a result of preconceived ideas or past experiences. Ask questions, take the time to know the person, don't assume that your initial thought is automatically 'correct'.

I know I have come a long way from no money to doing pretty well. I'm far from wealthy but would appreciate a man who recognizes how far I've come.

So you have achieved an enormous amount. And from what you say later in this post, pretty much all on your own without the 'normal' support systems other people have in life. So not only is this a big thing to you, something you are proud of and 'protective' of, it IS a big thing, period. What you have achieved IS a major thing and very impressive.

For a man to recognise how far you've come, he has to know how far you've come, of course. And I imagine, that means he'd have to know some fairly personal things about you and your childhood etc. In addition, unless a person has gone through something similar to this, they might find it more difficult to relate to or to fully appreciate just how hard that was and what a great achievement it was.

Question to you. Do you think it is THIS ONE THING that makes you special? How do you perceive it in yourself? Has it been such a huge thing for you that if someone doesn't immediately recognise it and applaud it, that you feel that person doesn't appreciate you? I'm not making any judgment in asking that, just want to know how YOU see it because it might help things along.

I want a man who respects that and yes I have been around much wealthier men recently.

This is possibly because you are beginning to believe that you are worthy of a man who is of equal earning capacity/wealth?? In other words, perhaps you didn't really believe that before, so you opted for a man who kind of lower down the rung, so to speak. It's not a coincidence that you're recently being around more wealthy men, is what I'm saying. It's part of your growth that this should change.

I must say its a whole new world for me.

Yeah, it is. So.....you're more likely to feel out of your comfort zone a la more likely to feel self conscious or even insecure in this environment, hey? That's when projection starts to kick in.....

I divorced a man who used me for my drive so he didn't have to try or work hard.

Hmmm. Lots I could say about that. He used you for your drive....you gave him your drive and accommodated his lack of it. You either attracted/chose a man who was 'weaker' than you in this regard....or you 'created' him (inadvertently) via needing to take control and being the stronger one of the partnership in this regard....because you felt SAFER when you were in control?? Difficult to know which starts first in these cases. Am more likely to put it down to it being right for you at that time in your life, but you ultimately grew out of it and started to want a man who is your equal in this regard. Question is, are you ready for a man who is your SUPERIOR in this regard??

I know I have a lot to learn and sometimes I can be more masculine when I am insecure.

What do you mean by "more masculine"? Do you try to gain 'power'? Do you hide your feelings? Do you pretend to be ok with things you're not ok with? Do you try to be "more like a man" emotionally?

However, I can also go in the other direction and become needy.

So you're human, in other words. We get insecure, we cling and grab. Just like crossing a wobbly bridge. The more it wobbles the more we hesitate and hang on when it would be more effective to continue walking forward in an even and balanced way .

I grew up without a mother and father so I did not have role models.

And there it is!! You did ALL OF THIS, ALL ON YOUR OWN. Which is an amazing feat. Of COURSE you want to be respected for that and for people to appreciate that.

Unfortunately, though, not all people WILL get this. Either because they don't know you well enough to know what you went through....or because you 'hide' it via appearing confident, strong and yes, 'masculine' emotionally. Which is it?? Or a combination of both??

I don't want to become disenchanted but I realize that men of certain means can and will seek younger women.

SOME men do. Not ALL of them . Some men seek more than *just* that.

I will not settle for anything less than a man who loves me for who I am , what I have achieved and knows who he is and respects me .

And that's OK. Just remember though that he has to know these things about you and you have to make sure you're not using 'what you've achieved' as your main reason for a man loving and respecting you. It IS a big part of who you are, but you are also a fun, attractive woman (according to your friends - who should know), so which woman shows herself the most when she's dating?? The fun, sexy and attractive woman....or the financial achiever?

Do you 'treat' your dating life as a business proposition?? Are you being very left brained about your choice of partner and in your dating life?

Perhaps look at it this way. When you're in early throes of dating a man, neither of you know each other very well. It's mostly based around attraction at that stage, firstly sexual and quickly emotional too. While YOU may be assessing him for long term compatibility/suitability, HE is only thinking about whether he's having a good time RIGHT NOW and if he's feeling good at the end of that date, organising ANOTHER date with you. He is most definitely NOT assessing you as a potential life partner at that stage.

In addition, imagine his growing respect, admiration and surprise if he starts off thinking you're fantastic company, funny, sexy, wildly attractive AND THEN to discover, that you're also a highly accomplished, strong and capable woman to boot??

In other words, he doesn't have to know this about you in the first two dates. If you want a man to WANT to get to know the real you, he's going to have to want to spend time with you and get to know you....and the only way he's going to want to do that is if he loves being in your company and feels very attracted to you on a sexual and emotional basis. Your successes and achievements can be 'added' later on a more drip feed basis. They should not be the MAIN thing you use (or SEEK) in terms of attracting the man in those early days .

I hope I am not asking for the world.

No, you're not.

I think I'm being reasonable

Yes, you are.

It's perhaps more just a matter of how you go about getting that.

You mentioned in an earlier thread that you 'couldn't afford' the Seventh Sense program. In all honesty, if you could use that fabulous financial acumen to INVEST IN YOUR FUTURE HAPPINESS, I'm sure you could find the money . It would give you so many insights into all of this and would help you gain more from the forum, too. So please consider that again .

[fredd1]

Janice, Once again I somehow lost the site and all of my reply. Will get back to you on thoughts from earlier discussion. Wondering about seventh sense program. I learned about this site through another relationship program that I felt was quite a disappointment. Do you think that is the best program for me given the little info you know about me? There are so many programs. Also, just a thought on projecting. I think I do this more often than I would like to admit. I am still dealing with self esteem issues. Observing ego helps but I know I don;t always stop myself, especially around people who can intimidate me. I know no one is better than anyone else however, I can still get lost sometimes. I have Dr. Paul's relationship book and anxiety program. I love them both. I am still thinking things over and hope to talk again soon. Let me know about the SS program. I know there is a discount for those of us that signed up for the 3 day lesson. Thanks again:)

[janiceh]

Just as a hint to not lose those posts, before you hit 'submit', copy the post. If it's taken a while for you to create it, you will often be 'logged off' and lose the whole thing, but if you copy it first it doesn't matter .

Re the Seventh Sense Program, what you will gain insight to is how the steps of attraction work for a man, what inspires him, what he's seeking etc.

In that regard, I think it would be an excellent investment for you. MindOS is also a great program for your own psychology, irrespective of what gender and/or your relationships with the opposite sex. In other words, if you're having trouble with projection, MindOS will help you with that moreso than Seventh Sense. Seventh Sense is about understanding men, understanding what they seek, what the courtship steps are etc., whereas MindOS is more about your own psychological growth irrespective of specific relationships as such.

Self esteem is also covered in MindOS and is an issue for many, many people. And it comes to the fore much moreso in relationships than when on our 'own'.

Have a look at the programs, anyway, and see what you think .

[mindscientist]

Great pointer about the copy before submit when posting a long post. I learned that one the hard way.

I dated a woman about a year ago who had amazing social skills. I spent the night and had the next day off. Since she works from home when she isn't travelling, she was technically 'on the job'. We were fooling around when she got a work call she had to take. I'm pretty lousy on the phone, but she excels at that. I listened as she did an amazing job describing to the person which people to contact and what to ask them in order to resolve a difficult situation.

I could care less how much money she made or how 'successful' she was. The thing is she was commited to taking care of the situation, had a different social skillset than me and had a way of bringing her team's resources together to solve the problem.

I was pretty turned on by the experience.

[fredd1]

Thanks to Jess Janice and mind scientist for all your wonderful insight. Especially Jess for starting this whole conversation. Janice I went ahead and got the seventh sense and am considering the e book of mind OS.